"Understanding Tzniut" (ответ Чемберлену)

[ymarkov]

R' Gil Student wrote back in 2008:

"The topic of modest dress in Jewish law is one that is very dependent on local custom. While there are some issues that are universal, most of the details are location specific. This became glaringly obvious a few years ago when R. Pesach Eliyahu Falk published a book titled Modesty: An Adornment for Life, which consistently presented practices that represent the norm in certain Charedi/Chassidic circles as the unequivocal standard.

"R. Yehuda Henkin has published a detailed and devastating critique of many of R. Falk's fundamental positions. This long essay originally appeared in the journal Tradition and has now been updated and published in a book appropriately titled Understanding Tzniut: Modern Controversies in the Jewish Community. The essay is published alongside another two related essays and a second section of interesting essays on unrelated topic (e.g. whether one must show respect to a disrespectful Torah scholar and the proper attitude towards the state of Israel post-Disengagement). R. Henkin's essay on modest dress analyzes a number of relevant topics (e.g. women's haircovering, necklines) and shows that R. Falk's positions are extreme. In reaching his conclusions, R. Henkin displays a mastery of both halakhic views on this subject and sound reasoning."

Full post here - http://hirhurim.blogspot.com/2008/02/understanding-tzenius.html

Comments

[lkitross.livejournal.com]

Some time ago there was a congress, a big hall full of men in black discussed female clothes.

[lkitross.livejournal.com]

Писал на эту тему здесь.
С тех пор слышал точку зрения, что данная тема получила особенное развитие, потому что дает возможность женщинам проявить творческую инициативу, а таких возможностей у них в алахе мало.

[bringing-peace.livejournal.com]

it's about time!

[bringing-peace.livejournal.com]

have you red it?

[ymarkov.livejournal.com]

I only learned of its existence yesterday. Here's another interesting text:

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I think of the men who try to displace feelings of unease onto the women in their communities, asking that they change their behavior to make the men more comfortable. Perhaps these men ought to learn how to cope with their own desire in a less harmful way, so that they can deal with women as whole people rather than as body parts. Tzniut requires a measure of tzimtzum, of withdrawal of the self for the sake of others. These men, learning how to place others needs before their own in order to connect with those people, might find the spiritual work of this tzniut practice valuable.

Obviously, in our culture(s), asking men to reframe old ways of thinking may seem like a formidable task, but perhaps only because of the relentless objectification of women in both religious and secular contexts. This status quo need not be maintained, however. An analogy, perhaps, is the advice most people would give someone who expresses discomfort about being around a noticeably disabled person—an individual missing a limb, for example. Many would suggest that the uncomfortable person learn how to “get over it” and focus on the person herself. Why does the same request seem outrageous regarding discomfort expressed about the mundane female body? In fact, as the gender theorist S. Bear Bergman observes,

There’s no other situation in which [placing the burden of desire onto the object desired] is culturally acceptable. We don’t camouflage a doughnut shop to protect dieters from the tempting sight of a doughnut, nor shutter bars to protect alcoholics, or any other such thing — one is responsible for managing one’s own cravings responsibly and appropriately. But when it comes to women’s sexuality or sensuality, it is still culturally and socially appropriate to say that any display is a temptation and that men... cannot he expected to resist such a thing.

Learning how to manage these desires effectively — committing an act of tzimtzum in which one deals with his or her desire in a way that does not impose upon others—can be an important aspect of a culture of tzniut. This, combined with the generosity of the oft-objectified party to try to connect with others and adapt to her surroundings as long as her connection to herself, to God, to the erotic impulse remains intact might have far-reaching effects. An ethos in which women are perpetually subjects and men work to relate to them as such has the potential to help transform our culture and the toxic ways in which gender is currently constructed.

In this formulation, the internal, rather than external, aspects of tzniut are emphasized. Living in relationship to God and to the deep well of one’s own spiritual power is at the forefront, and care and concern for others is understood as a major value. If we strive to live as whole, connected beings and to regard others as such, the length of a skirt, the cut of a top, and the volume at which we speak with one another become secondary. How things look in this new modesty will vary with the players and contexts involved. Shaming, coercion, and disregarding one another’s needs are unacceptable. Treating one another with love and respect — never at the expense of our own selves — will be at the forefront. It is with this love that we serve God.

The Passionate Torah by Danya Ruttenberg

thank you!

[bringing-peace.livejournal.com]

good point.
where is this one from?