Talk about fear-mongering! If I forward the text of your (hypothetical) message to the email address they give, the only way they could find out that you sent it to me is to use the unlawful wiretap provisions that Bush put into action a few years ago. Short of that enormous effort it can’t be done, and it’s just not that important anyway. There are plenty of things to object to about Obama without having to make things up or swallow the psychotic Kool-Aid. If you think that this is some vast left-wing conspiracy to have people inform on their neighbors for later collection and deportation: it is far more efficient, would produce more reliable results, and would produce vastly greater quantities of data in the first place to do this via Carnivore (or whatever they're calling it this year) - if that were their goal. If you insist on attaching a nefarious purpose to this, the only thing left is the idea of creating a “culture of informants” to get people used to the idea of ratting out their friends. If you believe that, you probably believe the moon landing was faked in a Hollywood back lot, that Kennedy was shot by Marilyn Monroe, that Rabin was killed by Shabak, that the Israelis are behind the events of 11-Sept-2001, and you’re far too gone for rational discussion on the matter. I understand that you came from such a society, but that isn't *here*.
Perhaps precisely because I came from such a society, I took this skit to be (mostly) a joke. Like when they had women in swimsuits smash iPods with sledgehammers for being an evil import.
Incidentally, what do you think would have happened in the media if it was the Bush White House asking people to forward "fishy" information? (BTW, any forwarded message including my e-mail address provides enough information to identify me in under five minutes, using nothing but Google. Of course, I don't hide.)
Sorry. I'm involved in a discussion right now with some folks who are otherwise rational, but who are seriously suggesting that this is some sort of Stasi/KGB-like scheme to get people to turn in their neighbors to the Thought Police. There's been a lot of this going around, from people who seem to be serious. While I too see this as a bit tongue-in-cheek, it does seem to put out a serious barb against this part of white house plan.
If Bush had done it, there would indeed have been an uproar, but part of that was because he had already created a "thought police" atmosphere and this would have fit right in (two friends at a local paper, for example, received a visit from some men in dark suits telling them that they shouldn't be printing so many critical stories about Bush lest things become difficult for them).
And yes, if you *forward* a message, that information goes along with it, but you don't need to do it that way. This scheme is indeed stupid; they should have set up a web page where someone can paste in the text of the email received without attaching the header information. Even still, though, if they were looking for some sort of domestic surveillance program against "internal agitators" they could hardly do a worse job, considering that the technology to track that email in the first place is not only already there but operational.
Why forward any e-mails? What about your good old snitch?
From: Eagle Eye [mailto: ***@yahoo.com ] Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2009 11:08 PM To: flag@whitehouse.gov Subject: Health reform disinformation report
To Whom It May Concern:
Yesterday I heard my neighbor, John Smith, residing at 57 Main st. Boston MA , spreading disinformation about President's health reform.
He was claiming that the President's health care plan costs too much and that most of the money will go into providing health care for the undocumented immigrants, which he called "illegal aliens".
He was also claiming that as a result of the President's health reform, the government will be in control of almost 50% of our economy and that this would lead to Socialism.
Needless to say, I was appalled by these obvious lies.
As a concerned citizen I feel it is my duty to notify the authorities about such mean and dangerous individuals.
I sincerely hope that the Government will take measures with respect to Mr. Smith, and that after he is sent to a health reform re-education camp somewhere in Alaskan arctic, I will be able to buy his house on government foreclosure auction.
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timeasmymeasure
no subject
Date: 2009-08-07 03:22 pm (UTC)If I forward the text of your (hypothetical) message to the email address they give, the only way they could find out that you sent it to me is to use the unlawful wiretap provisions that Bush put into action a few years ago. Short of that enormous effort it can’t be done, and it’s just not that important anyway. There are plenty of things to object to about Obama without having to make things up or swallow the psychotic Kool-Aid. If you think that this is some vast left-wing conspiracy to have people inform on their neighbors for later collection and deportation: it is far more efficient, would produce more reliable results, and would produce vastly greater quantities of data in the first place to do this via Carnivore (or whatever they're calling it this year) - if that were their goal. If you insist on attaching a nefarious purpose to this, the only thing left is the idea of creating a “culture of informants” to get people used to the idea of ratting out their friends. If you believe that, you probably believe the moon landing was faked in a Hollywood back lot, that Kennedy was shot by Marilyn Monroe, that Rabin was killed by Shabak, that the Israelis are behind the events of 11-Sept-2001, and you’re far too gone for rational discussion on the matter. I understand that you came from such a society, but that isn't *here*.
no subject
Date: 2009-08-07 05:04 pm (UTC)Perhaps precisely because I came from such a society, I took this skit to be (mostly) a joke. Like when they had women in swimsuits smash iPods with sledgehammers for being an evil import.
Incidentally, what do you think would have happened in the media if it was the Bush White House asking people to forward "fishy" information? (BTW, any forwarded message including my e-mail address provides enough information to identify me in under five minutes, using nothing but Google. Of course, I don't hide.)
no subject
Date: 2009-08-07 05:13 pm (UTC)If Bush had done it, there would indeed have been an uproar, but part of that was because he had already created a "thought police" atmosphere and this would have fit right in (two friends at a local paper, for example, received a visit from some men in dark suits telling them that they shouldn't be printing so many critical stories about Bush lest things become difficult for them).
And yes, if you *forward* a message, that information goes along with it, but you don't need to do it that way. This scheme is indeed stupid; they should have set up a web page where someone can paste in the text of the email received without attaching the header information. Even still, though, if they were looking for some sort of domestic surveillance program against "internal agitators" they could hardly do a worse job, considering that the technology to track that email in the first place is not only already there but operational.
no subject
Date: 2009-08-07 07:16 pm (UTC)From: Eagle Eye [mailto: ***@yahoo.com ]
Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2009 11:08 PM
To: flag@whitehouse.gov
Subject: Health reform disinformation report
To Whom It May Concern:
Yesterday I heard my neighbor, John Smith, residing at 57 Main st. Boston MA , spreading disinformation about President's health reform.
He was claiming that the President's health care plan costs too much and that most of the money will go into providing health care for the undocumented immigrants, which he called "illegal aliens".
He was also claiming that as a result of the President's health reform, the government will be in control of almost 50% of our economy and that this would lead to Socialism.
Needless to say, I was appalled by these obvious lies.
As a concerned citizen I feel it is my duty to notify the authorities about such mean and dangerous individuals.
I sincerely hope that the Government will take measures with respect to Mr. Smith, and that after he is sent to a health reform re-education camp somewhere in Alaskan arctic, I will be able to buy his house on government foreclosure auction.
Sincerely yours,
Eagle Eye
no subject
Date: 2009-08-07 09:23 pm (UTC)OTOH, the visit to the newspaper you describe is a troubling notion.