Базар за Рубашкина
Dec. 2nd, 2004 01:22 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
ymarkovПоявилось видео, снятое на шлахтосе в Поствилле, США. Здесь режут скот для Рубашкина.
На видео многие быки после шхиты встают и пытаются уйти. А нам говорили, что правильная шхита вызывает почти моментальную потерю сознания. Назревает скандальчик. Мнения раввинов разошлись:
New York Times:
Rabbis Menachem Genack and Yisroel Belsky, the chief experts for the Orthodox Union, which certifies over 600,000 products as kosher - including Aaron's Best meats - said the killings on the tape, while "gruesome," appeared kosher because the shochet checked to make sure he had severed both the trachea and esophagus. Scientific studies, Rabbi Belsky said, found that an animal whose brain had lost blood pressure when its throat was slit felt nothing and any motions it made were involuntary. "The perfect model is the headless chicken running around," said Rabbi Genack.
Ой ли? Это ведь крупное млекопитающее, а не птица. Та же статья:
But a spokesman for Shechita UK, a British lobbying group that defends ritual slaughter against the protests of animal-rights activists, said after watching the tape with a rabbi and a British shochet that he "felt queasy," and added,"I don't know what that is, but it's not shechita." The spokesman, Shimon Cohen, said that in Britain an animal must be restrained for 30 seconds to bleed, and no second cut is allowed. Done correctly, he said, a shochet's cut must produce instantaneous unconsciousness, so Agriprocessors' meat could not be considered kosher. Asked how prominent authorities could disagree over such a fundamental issue, he replied: "Well, we don't have a pope. You do find rabbis who interpret things in different ways."
Dr. Temple Grandin, a veterinarian at Colorado State University who designs humane slaughter plants, viewed the tape last week without knowing the location. She called it "an atrocious abomination, nothing like I've seen in 30 kosher plants I've visited here and in England, France, Ireland and Canada." She said the throat-tearing violated federal anti-cruelty law. "Nothing in the Humane Slaughter Act says you can start dismembering an animal while it's still conscious," she said.
Jerusalem Post:
While PETA is confronting AgriProcessors on the grounds of alleged cruelty, the Israeli rabbinate's objections to the shehita (ritual slaughter) process followed by AgriProcessors are procedural. "Technically, the shehita is kosher, but some of the things they do deviate from the rabbinate's guidelines," said Rabbi Ezra Raful, head of the rabbinate's international shehita supervision department, who watched the PETA video together with the Post. "You see there, it looks like he ripped out the trachea and esophagus. We do not allow the animal to be touched after the shehita until the main part of the bleeding stops. That means no stunning like they do in Australia, and no attempts to speed the bleeding like what they are trying to do here."
Видео можно посмотреть здесь (30 минут) или здесь (5 минут).
На видео многие быки после шхиты встают и пытаются уйти. А нам говорили, что правильная шхита вызывает почти моментальную потерю сознания. Назревает скандальчик. Мнения раввинов разошлись:
New York Times:
Rabbis Menachem Genack and Yisroel Belsky, the chief experts for the Orthodox Union, which certifies over 600,000 products as kosher - including Aaron's Best meats - said the killings on the tape, while "gruesome," appeared kosher because the shochet checked to make sure he had severed both the trachea and esophagus. Scientific studies, Rabbi Belsky said, found that an animal whose brain had lost blood pressure when its throat was slit felt nothing and any motions it made were involuntary. "The perfect model is the headless chicken running around," said Rabbi Genack.
Ой ли? Это ведь крупное млекопитающее, а не птица. Та же статья:
But a spokesman for Shechita UK, a British lobbying group that defends ritual slaughter against the protests of animal-rights activists, said after watching the tape with a rabbi and a British shochet that he "felt queasy," and added,"I don't know what that is, but it's not shechita." The spokesman, Shimon Cohen, said that in Britain an animal must be restrained for 30 seconds to bleed, and no second cut is allowed. Done correctly, he said, a shochet's cut must produce instantaneous unconsciousness, so Agriprocessors' meat could not be considered kosher. Asked how prominent authorities could disagree over such a fundamental issue, he replied: "Well, we don't have a pope. You do find rabbis who interpret things in different ways."
Dr. Temple Grandin, a veterinarian at Colorado State University who designs humane slaughter plants, viewed the tape last week without knowing the location. She called it "an atrocious abomination, nothing like I've seen in 30 kosher plants I've visited here and in England, France, Ireland and Canada." She said the throat-tearing violated federal anti-cruelty law. "Nothing in the Humane Slaughter Act says you can start dismembering an animal while it's still conscious," she said.
Jerusalem Post:
While PETA is confronting AgriProcessors on the grounds of alleged cruelty, the Israeli rabbinate's objections to the shehita (ritual slaughter) process followed by AgriProcessors are procedural. "Technically, the shehita is kosher, but some of the things they do deviate from the rabbinate's guidelines," said Rabbi Ezra Raful, head of the rabbinate's international shehita supervision department, who watched the PETA video together with the Post. "You see there, it looks like he ripped out the trachea and esophagus. We do not allow the animal to be touched after the shehita until the main part of the bleeding stops. That means no stunning like they do in Australia, and no attempts to speed the bleeding like what they are trying to do here."
Видео можно посмотреть здесь (30 минут) или здесь (5 минут).
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no subject
Date: 2004-12-03 01:37 am (UTC)is it still ok to eat their meat?
i remember one Lubavitch girl (FFB) who said that she trusts Rubashkin
schehita but does not trust Derbetzin. I was really surprised, because
I thought that Derbetzin was ok. anyway, i'm really confused now :(
no subject
Date: 2004-12-03 01:34 pm (UTC)schehita but does not trust Derbetzin
If she really meant "trust" - well, then she is just, how should I say it, not very bright.
Probably she meant that she has taken upon herself a hidur of eating only chabad shehita: Many chabadniks eat only chabad schita beause of political and/or halochik considerations (there are differences on how the meat is checked, salted, an so forth among the poiskim). But is is not the matter of trust (well, with some exceptions, of course). There is also a very well known practice among hsidim (not just chabadniks) to eat only hsidishe shechita.
no subject
Date: 2004-12-03 01:47 pm (UTC)Из общих соображений, я не сомневаюсь, что все кошерно. А то, что gruesome, так это на любом мясокомбинате.
Да что там мясо: я помню в свое время работал со школой на молокозаводе, так я потом несколько месяцев не мог притронуться к молочным продуктам.
пытаются встать
Date: 2004-12-05 03:00 am (UTC)но отношение к животному после самой шхиты могли бы и улучшить, хотя бы дать сначала умереть спокойно, а потом рвать трахею из горла.
короче рубашкин попался...заплатит штраф и т.п.
неприятно что все газеты подхватили, наша местная джуиш ньюс аж в двух местах об этом написала, смакуя подробности...
no subject
Date: 2004-12-05 06:33 am (UTC)Re: пытаются встать
Date: 2004-12-05 07:26 am (UTC)i heard from one shochet that 25% of all cows move like that. it took Peta 7 weeks to collect "cruel" parts.
no subject
Date: 2004-12-05 10:08 pm (UTC)Скандал чисто пиарный - "птичку жалко." То-то же и в Jerusalem Post раввин цитируется: "Мы предписываем ждать 30 секунд после шхиты."
(Кстати, Вы консультируесь с Р' Сегалом... мы не знакомы в реале?)
no subject
Date: 2004-12-05 10:11 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-12-05 10:12 pm (UTC)response by S. Rubashkin
Date: 2004-12-09 03:18 am (UTC)